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New player's first questions... - Gimgamgoo - 03-15-2018
Hi,
I've not yet played my first game, but read through the rules quite a few times. I know if I play a new game with my wife or lad and it goes smoothly with little time wasted with my nose in the book during the game, it's a keeper. If I spend half the first game time reading up on rules, it seems complex to them and it ends up on the dusty shelf of games to never play again.
So, with that, I actually have very few questions. I've made my own turn summary sheet adding in the optional rules we want to try from the start. Feeling pretty confident, except for...
Warhead Launch Phase:
1. In the Warhead phase, in reality, how do you launch everything simultaneously? Do you just go through ship by ship launching or take it in turns like the movement phase?
Missile Launching:
2. a) If I launch missiles (with a lock on), can the same crew member that launched the missiles also launch a torpedo?
2. b) If a ship has a pilot and a gunner, can they launch a torpedo each (providing there's enough left)?
2. c) The "Revenge" class of ship has 1 gunner, but 3 missile launchers listed as Gunner. Can the gunner fire all 3 in one round, or is it designed like this so the Revenge class has 3 shots of missiles, but can only fire 5 rather than 10 at a time?
Point Defense:
3. a) The Point Defense system says it can be used to stop any torpedo entering the hex (instead of dodging). I assume you can only shoot as many times as the number in the brackets. eg a PD 1-7(2) only gets to shoot at two torpedoes.
3. b) If a PD of 1-7(2) only fires one shot at a torpedo, can it be used again once against a missile hit in the later phase, or does it still choose one or the other?
Thanks for any answers. I'm sure our first game will bring up a few more problems, but a good reading of the rules only had me questioning those parts.
PS: Loved my pdf purchase of Space Junk. So many cool ideas and scenarios we want to try already. :-)
PPS: I also bought Hangar 51, so I had the ship stats/cards for all the models. The one model that stood out on the store was the "Eel". I can't find this one. Which book is it in?
RE: New player's first questions... - Tom McCarthy - 03-16-2018
(03-15-2018, 08:37 PM)Gimgamgoo Wrote: Warhead Launch Phase:
1. In the Warhead phase, in reality, how do you launch everything simultaneously? Do you just go through ship by ship launching or take it in turns like the movement phase?
>> We have laminated counters for torpedoes, so everyone writes down their torpedo targets before any are announced. We go around the table attempting missile lock-ons sequentially.
Missile Launching:
2. a) If I launch missiles (with a lock on), can the same crew member that launched the missiles also launch a torpedo?
>> We say yes.
2. b) If a ship has a pilot and a gunner, can they launch a torpedo each (providing there's enough left)?
>> We say any alert crew member can launch any number.
2. c) The "Revenge" class of ship has 1 gunner, but 3 missile launchers listed as Gunner. Can the gunner fire all 3 in one round, or is it designed like this so the Revenge class has 3 shots of missiles, but can only fire 5 rather than 10 at a time?
>> By the rules, he can only fire one missile launcher per turn. There's an optional house rule where he can try any number at -2.
Point Defense:
3. a) The Point Defense system says it can be used to stop any torpedo entering the hex (instead of dodging). I assume you can only shoot as many times as the number in the brackets. eg a PD 1-7(2) only gets to shoot at two torpedoes.
>> You are correct. And only one attempt if there's one torpedo.
3. b) If a PD of 1-7(2) only fires one shot at a torpedo, can it be used again once against a missile hit in the later phase, or does it still choose one or the other?
>> If you use any PDS for torpedoes, it is unavailable in the missile phase.
PPS: I also bought Hangar 51, so I had the ship stats/cards for all the models. The one model that stood out on the store was the "Eel". I can't find this one. Which book is it in?
>> IIRC, the Eel is one of a few minis that came out around the release of the latest Night Brood book, but a few of those did not get rules.
RE: New player's first questions... - Gimgamgoo - 03-16-2018
Thanks so much for all those answers.
The only part I'll extend on is;
Tom McCarthy Wrote:Gimgamgoo Wrote:2. b) If a ship has a pilot and a gunner, can they launch a torpedo each (providing there's enough left)?
>> We say any alert crew member can launch any number.
ANY?
So you could launch the entire weapons bay of torpedoes in one go?
Sounds either deadly or risky. :-)
RE: New player's first questions... - Karelian Suomi - 03-16-2018
(03-16-2018, 03:51 PM)Gimgamgoo Wrote: ANY?
So you could launch the entire weapons bay of torpedoes in one go?
Sounds either deadly or risky. :-)
Yes. Any and all if you so choose, and either split up to different targets, or all aimed at the same poor schmo of your choosing.
Concerning Tom's answer about firing multiple missile launchers, under the Basic Rules it is one and only one per gunner or pilot if they have more than one missile launcher, and at -2 to lock on if they're trying to fire two at the same target.
Now, that being said, there's one exception to that rule, and that is the Chupacabra (which you'll find in the Fighter Tactics Manual). The little Chuppy has two missile launchers linked together by a specialized fire control system, so a Chuppy can dump a double barreled load of missiles on the same target. One of the punch list items planned for the revised Ship Design System is an Advanced Missile Targeting Director, which will enable a ship to link two or even three Missile Launchers together to fire at the same target. It will in all likelihood have a slot costs associated with it, so it won't just cost in terms of BPV, but be an item that takes up some room in the ship.
I designed the Chupacabra along with the other flying hunks of interstellar junk in the FTM mostly as off-the-shelf technology (attempted) solutions to the existing Night Brood ships then in print (which were ridiculously overpowered). The Chuppy was a local design made by an independent former Imperial agrocolony world (Loma Verde) with limited shipbuilding capabilities. The Loma Verdeans took Disruptors (a weapon derived from asteroid mining equipment), and missiles (cheap and relatively easy to manufacture), and wedded them to a pair of high powered fusion engines. A steel hull (the Loma Verdeans have a decent lower tech orbital shipyard that supports their local asteroid and planetoid mining operations) and the necessary avionics, etc., and along with a grab bag of a few score captured or "acquired" ships of various other makes and models, and the Loma Verdeans are fairly self sufficient at repelling the usual random space pirates and such that periodically come calling.
So as you can see Silent Death was designed mainly following the K.I.S.S Principle, which is why it is so easy to learn and play as a whole. So go forth and conquer, oh Knight of the Stars (or at least die a spectacular death trying)!
RE: New player's first questions... - Karelian Suomi - 03-16-2018
Tom, thanks for fielding "Triple G's" questions, and BTW, the Eel is available in the Night Brood playtesting document. I'll e-mail you a copy of the current version if you like so you can take the nasty beastie out for a spin if you like!
RE: New player's first questions... - Gimgamgoo - 03-18-2018
Well, we had our first game this afternoon. Great fun! My wife's Ghar force won the day against my Alogoryn - mainly because I gave in because all my weapon systems or ships were destroyed.
We were impatient and couldn't wait for the mini stands I'd ordered from Litko for putting the torpedoes on. We also haven't received the mousepad 4'x3' 1.5" hex mat yet - UPS have it as delivery on Monday. :-( So in the end we used the cardboard Starfinder flipmat we had. The creases tend to be a bit annoying, even with some blutak to hold it down. They're also about 1.25" hexes so a little small for fitting ships and torpedoes in, but the game went on.
We played with 140 points each side. Limited to the few ships we had painted, so it wasn't anything designed to be game breaking or minmaxed. The aim was just to shoot each other up and learn the rules.
Ghar:
Night Hawk (plt 9, Gnr 9)
Kosmos (plt 7, Gnr 7)
Spirit Rider (plt 8, Gnr 8)
Algoryn:
Teal Hawk (plt 9, Gnr 8. Gnr 8)
Blizzard (plt 6, Gnr 4)
Pit Viper 1 (plt 5, Gnr 5)
Pit Viper 2 (plt 5, Gnr 4)
A good game to learn from. The missiles and torpedoes were spent rather rapidly and did very little damage with a few lucky dodges, jams and point defense rolls made.
First ship to move each round was difficult as you just didn't know where other ships would be. Moving first is probably the trickiest thing we found.
We did end up with lots of bizarre looking stages after movement, like the one below where it looks like we were all lining up to take the shot.
I suppose this was because all the ships we used only had (F) firing arcs. With different arcs, I suppose we'll end up with much more interesting movement phases.
Strange movement results...
![[Image: 20180318_160309_zpsagq5xkpw.jpg]](http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/Gimgamgoo/media/Silent%20Death/20180318_160309_zpsagq5xkpw.jpg.html)
The only question we ended up with during the game was this...
On page 58 of the rules (59 in the pdf) there is;
"Each pilot and gunner may fire one of their assigned weapon system(s) once each Cannon Fire Phase."
The Teal Hawk has a weapon system (the 2 Blatguns) that is listed as both Pilot or Gunner. Can we fire this with the gunner in the gunner iniative phase then with the pilot when it's his turn to fire, or is the weapon system itself restricted to one fire per round?
Thanks again folks.
Loving this game.
Another pic:
One Algoryn ship off the picture, but first cannon contact about to occur.
![[Image: 20180318_143312_zpsg4k6dlze.jpg]](http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/Gimgamgoo/media/Silent%20Death/20180318_143312_zpsg4k6dlze.jpg.html)
RE: New player's first questions... - Karelian Suomi - 03-18-2018
Thank you for sharing this! To answer your question, the Teal Hawk may fire once and only oncer per turn, with either the Gunner or Pilot using the Blatguns (but not both). This is one of those original design quirks I personally found slightly annoying, but as is suggested in the Teal Hawk's description, you can give the Gunner a higher Gunnery skill rating, and have the Pilot's Gunnery skill lower or even a "1" to save on points.
I personally lean towards the Really Old School of each having their own weapon(s), and the Gunner's weapon(s) should cover areas that the Pilot's do not (ie., the Salamander and the Death Wind).
I also see that you and your Significantly Better Half have discovered The Conga Line of Death, which is what results from each hex representing circa 1 kilometer of space and the unique initiative driven movement system:
RE: New player's first questions... - Smurf - 03-20-2018
(03-18-2018, 05:00 PM)Gimgamgoo Wrote: ...[quote pid='835' dateline='1521392410']
Ghar:
Night Hawk (plt 9, Gnr 9)
Kosmos (plt 7, Gnr 7)
Spirit Rider (plt 8, Gnr 8)
Algoryn:
Teal Hawk (plt 9, Gnr 8. Gnr 8)
Blizzard (plt 6, Gnr 4)
Pit Viper 1 (plt 5, Gnr 5)
Pit Viper 2 (plt 5, Gnr 4)
---
I appreciate you are learning the game but a Night Hawk with 9/9 is a bit OTT. Normally I find they work fine at the 5-6 range (increases the chance of doubles too.
The Ghar having all ships skills at 7+ is a bit hardcore. Sometimes think of most attrition fighters to be skill 1-2 range, experienced attrition fighters to be 3-4. Mid sized ships, ones with 2D6 weaponry should be thinking of the 5-6 range, likewise 2D8 with SR penalties will be good at 7-8 and only the exceptional should be in the 9-10 band.
This means the Algoryn should have had something like:
Teal Hawk, 7/1 and 5
-10pts
Blizzard ideally should be the other way around 4/6
Pit Vipers should be 1/1
-15pts
This saving could net another Pit Viper or Blizzard.
[/quote]
RE: New player's first questions... - Karelian Suomi - 03-20-2018
What the Small Blue Homicidal One said is true enough: you can get some more bang for your buck by shaving down the costs of your crew, and the Nighthawk's ferocious primary weapons system with it's built in to-hit bonus can compensate for a lower Gunnery skill. That said, I'll respectfully beg to differ with him on the idea of a 9/9 Nighthawk being OTT ("Over The Top" to us Yanks).
Giving your best weapons platform to your best pilot is akin to the age old practice of giving your newest and best fighter aircraft to your best pilot(s); you increase their chances for survival, and you increase your chances of your best pilots in your best machines not only coming back, but coming back with a new kill or three under their belts. So giving that Nighthawk to a 9/9 (who is essentially a highly successful fighter ace) is like the Luftwaffe giving a brand new Me-109G over to an ace like Hans Bar while everybody else will schlep along in their well worn F-models, or giving a brand new P-47D "Bubble Top" to Robert S. Johnson while everyone else keeps a-goin' in their earlier model Razorbacks.
It really is a personal judgement call IMHO. You have to decide which approach works best for you, whether it's Quality Over Quantity, or Quantity Has A Quality All Of It's Own. Either way, if you're having fun doing it, that's the real win IMHO, no matter how many ships of yours survive or get shot into scrap.
P.S. Don't let the little blue guy's characteristic Canadian niceness fool you; he's a seriously veteran player who will eat you faster than a half-starved Great White off the Farallons will grab a fat seal. So if you ever find yourself playing opposite Callsign: Smurf at a convention one day, your pilots had better have their insurance policies all paid up before they launch!
RE: New player's first questions... - Gimgamgoo - 03-23-2018
(03-20-2018, 09:06 AM)Smurf Wrote:(03-18-2018, 05:00 PM)Gimgamgoo Wrote: ...[quote pid='835' dateline='1521392410']
Ghar:
Night Hawk (plt 9, Gnr 9)
Kosmos (plt 7, Gnr 7)
Spirit Rider (plt 8, Gnr 8)
Algoryn:
Teal Hawk (plt 9, Gnr 8. Gnr 8)
Blizzard (plt 6, Gnr 4)
Pit Viper 1 (plt 5, Gnr 5)
Pit Viper 2 (plt 5, Gnr 4)
---
I appreciate you are learning the game but a Night Hawk with 9/9 is a bit OTT. Normally I find they work fine at the 5-6 range (increases the chance of doubles too.
The Ghar having all ships skills at 7+ is a bit hardcore. Sometimes think of most attrition fighters to be skill 1-2 range, experienced attrition fighters to be 3-4. Mid sized ships, ones with 2D6 weaponry should be thinking of the 5-6 range, likewise 2D8 with SR penalties will be good at 7-8 and only the exceptional should be in the 9-10 band.
This means the Algoryn should have had something like:
Teal Hawk, 7/1 and 5
-10pts
Blizzard ideally should be the other way around 4/6
Pit Vipers should be 1/1
-15pts
This saving could net another Pit Viper or Blizzard.
[/quote]
All more than likely true.
However, we had those 7 painted ships and wanted to use them all.
So, we decided 140 points would give the player with 4 ships enough points to make crew values that weren't too low.
We certainly learnt from it.
Particularly that we do need decent gunner skills. When you have a gunner with 6 or less skill, you're gaining 1d6 or 1d4 to your weapon. The player using the "Algoryn" in this game, had their best ship with 2d6 weapons. If you have only 1d6 gunner skill, the chance of hitting defense 14 (seems common) is 16%, and with 1d4, it's barely 7%. At the best, With 2d8+1d6 + 1 for short range, you're only hitting Defense 14 50% of the time.
For the 2d6 weapons with 1d4 gunnery, at long range, you'll only ever hit Defense 14 at 2.8% of the time.
Although we understand the 'realism' of having pilot/gunner skills at 8+ all the time is unlikely, we're not playing tournaments, we're also trying to have a game that will be a max of 1.5 hours. Any longer than that and my wife gets bored of rolling dice with me.
As it turned out, the learning game was just under 1.5 hours with 140 points.
I think we'll probably be able to get some 200 point games played with more choice of ships/crew once I get a few more painted.
I'm also waiting on 4 larger ships from the online store, so we can try out games with ships with front and side damage tables.
Ohh... and all the asteroids I've just made/painted and the black hole.
And the beautiful 4'x3' mousepad star mat with 1.5" hexes. :-)
So much fun ahead.