Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Few questions

#1
Hi all,

I've had all my SD books out this weekend statting up from SW:The Force Awakens ships since I have all these nice die-casts to game with (far ahead of my slow-moving classic SW painting project).  A few fairly random questions came up as I was going over the books and QRS sheets:

- How do Lone Wolf and Fanatic work in practice in terms of obligating the pilot to not support his wingman and continue an attack (Lone Wolf) or mandating an attack on the closest target (Fanatic).  The Counting Coup bit of Fanatic I get, though I'm not really looking to use that with SW:TFA, but I have a lone wolf style character (the horse-headed alien X-Wing pilot from the movie) to give some character to.

- In a few places the same TSR value is given "less than" that value or "less than or equal to" that value, I presume it's the latter.  So a TSR 14 weapon can only target ships with drives of 14 or less.

I think that's it for now, off to pick up a few more supplements for SD that I don't have, to get the weapons tech for other projects.

Besides classic SW and SW:TFA, I have Battlestar Galactica, Wing Commander, and Starblazers projects in the work.  For Starblazers I have the mecha-colle (sp?) EDF fighters, but need to make up my own opponents since as far as I can tell the traditional ones aren't available in the same scale.  I have some Reaper CAV fighters that match the scale and some Shapeways stuff that should work.

Chris
  Reply

#2
(12-12-2016, 07:45 PM)Boywundyrx Wrote: Hi all,

I've had all my SD books out this weekend statting up from SW:The Force Awakens ships since I have all these nice die-casts to game with (far ahead of my slow-moving classic SW painting project).  A few fairly random questions came up as I was going over the books and QRS sheets:

- How do Lone Wolf and Fanatic work in practice in terms of obligating the pilot to not support his wingman and continue an attack (Lone Wolf) or mandating an attack on the closest target (Fanatic).  The Counting Coup bit of Fanatic I get, though I'm not really looking to use that with SW:TFA, but I have a lone wolf style character (the horse-headed alien X-Wing pilot from the movie) to give some character to.

- In a few places the same TSR value is given "less than" that value or "less than or equal to" that value, I presume it's the latter.  So a TSR 14 weapon can only target ships with drives of 14 or less.

I think that's it for now, off to pick up a few more supplements for SD that I don't have, to get the weapons tech for other projects.

Besides classic SW and SW:TFA, I have Battlestar Galactica, Wing Commander, and Starblazers projects in the work.  For Starblazers I have the mecha-colle (sp?) EDF fighters, but need to make up my own opponents since as far as I can tell the traditional ones aren't available in the same scale.  I have some Reaper CAV fighters that match the scale and some Shapeways stuff that should work.

Chris

Chris,

the Lone Wolf isn't obligated to attack what is closest; he does his own thing, and doesn't consider how that might impact others in his or her unit. So if there's a bigger, juicier target further off, the Lone Wolf will ignore the Pit Viper in his face and race off to chase his own glory, leaving the Lone Wolf's hapless wingmate to try and deal with whatever is immediately in their path. This can also translate to the Lone Wolf actually doing something really, really important, like in an Operation Vengeance scenario actually mowing through the enemy escorts to whack the transport(s) they're trying to protect (they just won't help their wingmate if the Lone Wolf's wingmate is in trouble).

The Fanatic will pounce upon what is closest regardless of target strength or value, because DIE, INFIDEL DOG, DIE!! 

That really is it in a nutshell, unless you're using morale rules in which case the Fanatic will simply ignore all adverse morale results and keep right on fighting to the death. 

You're correct on the TSR: the number value is equal to or less than. 

One last thing, as one shameless Yamato 2199 fan to another, there is one type of Garmillas fighter model available at the moment, it's the interceptor that was used to defend the Pluto base during the first battle. You get two of the lil' devils in Deusura II Core Ship model (which when rebased on a two-hex stand makes a nifty warhound):  Deusura II on sale at HobbyLink Japan!

Hope all this helps!  Cool
"Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here..."

- Ming the Merciless
  Reply

#3
Thanks Leland, that does help.  And thanks for the tip about the Gamilas fighter, do you have any idea of scale of the fighters?  The mecha-colle EDF ones seem to be about 6-10mm (a Cosmo Tiger is about 5" long).
Two further questions came up last night when I was translating some freighters/civilian shuttles over to game sheets - is the Kashmere Commonwealth "exposed engines" for freighters the same quirk as "Poorly Shielded Drives"?  I'd never tried to convert one over before but couldn't find what "exposed engines" actually was.
Also, when working with Well or Poorly Shielded Drives and you shift the drive's location one to the right or left on the damage track, do you just do that once and then go back to the normal separation between drive hits, or is it always one better or worse?
Since that's probably confusing wording, I'll try an example of a drive that normally would go every 10 spaces on the damage track (e.g. 10, 20, 30, 40).  But it's well-shielded, so does it go:
a) 11, 21, 31, 41
or
b) 11, 22, 33, 44?
Thanks,
Chris
  Reply

#4
(12-15-2016, 09:47 PM)Boywundyrx Wrote: Thanks Leland, that does help.  And thanks for the tip about the Gamilas fighter, do you have any idea of scale of the fighters?  The mecha-colle EDF ones seem to be about 6-10mm (a Cosmo Tiger is about 5" long).
Two further questions came up last night when I was translating some freighters/civilian shuttles over to game sheets - is the Kashmere Commonwealth "exposed engines" for freighters the same quirk as "Poorly Shielded Drives"?  I'd never tried to convert one over before but couldn't find what "exposed engines" actually was.
Also, when working with Well or Poorly Shielded Drives and you shift the drive's location one to the right or left on the damage track, do you just do that once and then go back to the normal separation between drive hits, or is it always one better or worse?
Since that's probably confusing wording, I'll try an example of a drive that normally would go every 10 spaces on the damage track (e.g. 10, 20, 30, 40).  But it's well-shielded, so does it go:
a) 11, 21, 31, 41
or
b) 11, 22, 33, 44?
Thanks,
Chris



Chris,

those Garmilas fighters are a bit longer and wider than the Cosmo Zero or Hayabusa, but that is actually a good thing, as the canopy size is roughly the same, and the Garmilas bird is a heavy interceptor according to the assorted fluff I've come across, a sort of single seat analogue to the WW2-vintage Messerschmitt BF-110 heavy fighter. The brute packs a weapon loadout that would make a warhound balk, consisting of 2 x 7.9mm automatic cannons, 2 x 13mm cannons, and 4 x 47mm cannons, plus a half dozen missiles(!). Watching the dogfight sequence over the Pluto base, the Garmilas birds appeared to be a bit slower and less maneuverable than the lighter Cosmo Zeros and Hayabusa of the EDF. So for my own Yamato 2199 vanity project, I'm planning on using the 400 ton SPAC template for the Garmilas interceptors, and the 300ton SPAC template for the Cosmo Zero, and the 200 ton SPAC template for the Hayabusa. 

Have you visited this splendid Yamato fan site by chance: CosmoDNA

Lots of information and inspiration to be gleaned from that site IMHO. Cool

Now, about those engine hits, if you compare the Core Rulebook Ship Design rules covering the assignment of Engine hit boxes on the Damage Track to those in the Kashmere Commonwealth freighter design system's Damage Track hit box assignment for Engine hits, you'll see that "Poorly Shielded Drives" are NOT the same thing. 

Quite simply, freighter engines take hits more frequently and sooner than either military grade engines or military grade engines with the Poorly Shielded Drives quirk. You're actually looking at three (3) flavors of engine here... Cool

hope this all helps! Big Grin
"Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here..."

- Ming the Merciless
  Reply

#5
(12-16-2016, 07:45 AM)Karelian Suomi Wrote:
(12-15-2016, 09:47 PM)Boywundyrx Wrote: Since that's probably confusing wording, I'll try an example of a drive that normally would go every 10 spaces on the damage track (e.g. 10, 20, 30, 40).  But it's well-shielded, so does it go:
a) 11, 21, 31, 41
or
b) 11, 22, 33, 44?
Thanks,
Chris



Chris,

those Garmilas fighters are a bit longer and wider than the Cosmo Zero or Hayabusa, but that is actually a good thing, as the canopy size is roughly the same, and the Garmilas bird is a heavy interceptor according to the assorted fluff I've come across, a sort of single seat analogue to the WW2-vintage Messerschmitt BF-110 heavy fighter. The brute packs a weapon loadout that would make a warhound balk, consisting of 2 x 7.9mm automatic cannons, 2 x 13mm cannons, and 4 x 47mm cannons, plus a half dozen missiles(!). Watching the dogfight sequence over the Pluto base, the Garmilas birds appeared to be a bit slower and less maneuverable than the lighter Cosmo Zeros and Hayabusa of the EDF. So for my own Yamato 2199 vanity project, I'm planning on using the 400 ton SPAC template for the Garmilas interceptors, and the 300ton SPAC template for the Cosmo Zero, and the 200 ton SPAC template for the Hayabusa. 

Have you visited this splendid Yamato fan site by chance: CosmoDNA

Lots of information and inspiration to be gleaned from that site IMHO. Cool

Now, about those engine hits, if you compare the Core Rulebook Ship Design rules covering the assignment of Engine hit boxes on the Damage Track to those in the Kashmere Commonwealth freighter design system's Damage Track hit box assignment for Engine hits, you'll see that "Poorly Shielded Drives" are NOT the same thing. 

Quite simply, freighter engines take hits more frequently and sooner than either military grade engines or military grade engines with the Poorly Shielded Drives quirk. You're actually looking at three (3) flavors of engine here... Cool

hope this all helps! Big Grin

Thanks for the info on the Garmilas fighter, glad to know I don't have to totally improvise a new faction (though I probably will...).

Ah, ok on the exposed engines, I'll go look into that more in KC, my first pass missed it.  But for my example of Well-Shielded Drives above, would A or B be the correct way to implement it?
  Reply

#6
(12-16-2016, 05:08 PM)Boywundyrx Wrote:
(12-16-2016, 07:45 AM)Karelian Suomi Wrote:
(12-15-2016, 09:47 PM)Boywundyrx Wrote: Since that's probably confusing wording, I'll try an example of a drive that normally would go every 10 spaces on the damage track (e.g. 10, 20, 30, 40).  But it's well-shielded, so does it go:
a) 11, 21, 31, 41
or
b) 11, 22, 33, 44?
Thanks,
Chris
   
Chris,

   The answer to your question is A. It's one (1) point shift for each Drive hit. Cool
SaveSave
"Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here..."

- Ming the Merciless
  Reply

#7
(12-12-2016, 07:45 PM)Boywundyrx Wrote: - How do Lone Wolf and Fanatic work in practice in terms of obligating the pilot to not support his wingman and continue an attack (Lone Wolf) or mandating an attack on the closest target (Fanatic).

The More Than Valor Quirk rules are one of the least well-considered bits of TNM, and I would ignore them. Fanatic just mandates an attack on a "nearby" hostile ship; but Lone Wolf doesn't have anything approximating actual rules in it. The standout example is Always Supports His Wingman; you pay 35 points to have some ill-defined constraints imposed on you. Why would I pay points to have what I can do with a ship restricted?

(Mind you, I have just noticed this was from 2016, there not being much activity here. Ahem.)
  Reply

#8
(02-09-2018, 10:52 AM)damerell Wrote: The More Than Valor Quirk rules are one of the least well-considered bits of TNM, and I would ignore them. Fanatic just mandates an attack on a "nearby" hostile ship; but Lone Wolf doesn't have anything approximating actual rules in it. The standout example is Always Supports His Wingman; you pay 35 points to have some ill-defined constraints imposed on you. Why would I pay points to have what I can do with a ship restricted?

(Mind you, I have just noticed this was from 2016, there not being much activity here. Ahem.)

More Than Valor's Quirks were intended to add "flavor" to the game *if* players felt so inclined to use them. It's essentially a matter of personal taste; do you want steak frites, or do you want a good curry? Beer or wine? Colosian or Sigurd? Tokugawan or Luches? ASPer or Hibernian? I think you get the idea.

Always Supports His Wingman is actually a net advantage that overrides the tendency of the untrained to indulge in a furball rather than employ the very sort of team tactics that made the difference between life or death for many a real world fighter pilot including a number I actually spoke with one-on-one during my lifetime. The simple hard fact is that as sexy fun as playing the lone wolf hotshot fighter pilot may be, reality tells a different tale. During the course of the first half of the 20th century as fighter aircraft steadily improved in performance, firepower, and the ability of pilots to communicate and coordinate their actions in real time, it was discovered soon enough (and in unlikely places) that (1) a three ship tactical element was a guarantee that the third man would get cut out and shot to pieces, and (20 a two ship tactical element of leader and wingman working together as a disciplined team had a higher probability of both success in downing opposing aircraft, and in surviving the process of doing so

Our own experiences with playing Silent Death ran much the same course. Utilizing sound team tactics more often than not tended to dominate players who did not, especially when the later chose the all too common gamer approach to fighter combat of the apocryphal Kzinti tactical school of Scream and Leap.

Training and discipline are the key in success, as is luck and talent, but all things being equal, training and discipline to paraphrase George Patton, will always dominate untutored courage. Always Supports His Wingman therefore reflects a degree of training and ingrained pilot discipline that others may lack, potentially producing outcomes akin to those that played out in the skies over the Pacific during WW2 or earlier over Finland during the Winter War and briefly during the German invasion of France in 1940. It acts as a check of sorts on the player tendency to ignore what real pilots would have internalized through constant practice and drill. 

But again, this is a matter of personal taste, and there is something to be said for just going all Snoopy vs. the Red Baron on one another (and I am guilty as much as any fan of the game for doing so every now and again).  Some days ya gotta just say to Hell with it all, and just get stuck in for the sheer satisfaction fo making your friend's ship go BOOM! even if yours goes up with it in a ramming attack. Tongue

MTV is essentially a flavor additive for you the player to use and abuse or ignore as you see fit. if it works for you, great. If not, but you're still enjoying the game, it's still a win. Cool

As for the activity levels around here, we've made no secret of the challenges we have in our path as we've been pushing this particular boulder up a hill for a good many years now. I and the other team members have full time+ occupations outside of Metal Express that can get more than a little demanding. We come running back to the carcass for another bite whenever and however we can, and devil take the hindmost. 

That still hasn't stopped us from making progress behind the scenes as we've slowly and steadily worked out technical issues, with our first out in the open milestone being the issue of an updated and thoroughly made over 2nd ed. of Bladestorm! including a hard cover option through our RPGNow! online shop. 

As explained previously on the Home Page and our FaceBook page, we have set down three goals for 2018 that include an updated and modernized version of the Silent Death Core Rulebook, finishing the revisions to the Night Brood, and (digits crossed!), bringing the 3 to 1 scale resin models back to the fans, with quite a few previously unreleased ships added to the mix besides the twelve classic Core Ship models. We intend to meet those goals come Hell, high water, or another Night Brood invasion.  

So again, welcome to the forum! I encourage you to share pix of your ships, your games, and AARs if you've the time to spare. We always welcome positive discourse and input around here, and always appreciate an extra hand or two when it's time to feed the Grubs!  Cool
"Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here..."

- Ming the Merciless
  Reply

#9
(02-09-2018, 10:06 PM)Karelian Suomi Wrote: Always Supports His Wingman is actually a net advantage
Bluntly - no, it isn't, because I can save the 35 points and support my wingman anyway. Inasmuch as it makes any sense, it imposes constraints on the player; it doesn't grant any additional abilities (like Always Checks His Six). There is literally nothing you can do with a pilot with Always Supports that you can't do with a pilot who lacks it - you're just down 35 points.
Worse yet, if you can make the text out to be actual rules you can apply, there are things you can't do with the pilot who Always Supports that you could with a pilot who lacks it.

Supporting your wingman may well be a net advantage. Paying points to be forced to do something you could do anyway isn't.
  Reply

#10
(02-10-2018, 06:40 AM)damerell Wrote:
(02-09-2018, 10:06 PM)Karelian Suomi Wrote: Always Supports His Wingman is actually a net advantage
Bluntly - no, it isn't, because I can save the 35 points and support my wingman anyway. Inasmuch as it makes any sense, it imposes constraints on the player; it doesn't grant any additional abilities (like Always Checks His Six). There is literally nothing you can do with a pilot with Always Supports that you can't do with a pilot who lacks it - you're just down 35 points.
Worse yet, if you can make the text out to be actual rules you can apply, there are things you can't do with the pilot who Always Supports that you could with a pilot who lacks it.

Supporting your wingman may well be a net advantage. Paying points to be forced to do something you could do anyway isn't.

I suspect you'll agree with me on the point that being trained to do a thing consistently is one thing, while doing so consistently without being trained to do so is another. You comprehend the tactical advantages of doing so without being reminded and incentivized to do so; that makes you as a player more than a little dangerous (and that's a good thing). The Quirk itself was designed to reflect a specific degree of training performed by some, but not by others in Terran Space. It reflects a distinct difference in doctrines between some Houses and others. For whatever reason(s), some of the Houses train their pilots to have each other's backs to a degree others either cannot or will not instill in their own. Training isn't free, and imposing a point cost within the More Than Valor framework is an attempt to reflect this, while it is also an attempt at incentivizing members of a larger majority of game players who lack your astuteness and willingness to practice a sound tactical approach consistently without such an incentive in place. 

We introduced the efficacy of the wingman approach to players of Silent Death: The Next Millennium in the Fighter Tactics Manual. How many (A) actually read the FTM and internalized it's contents is anybody's guess. More Than Valor was written so many years ago to fulfill a request from the then series editor for a supplement that could provide a layer of role playing flavor; it was never intended as the equivalent of Holy Writ.

So again, More Than Valor is a supplement offering an extra layer of flavoring, not a mandated addition to the game. You're free to use it or not as you see fit. 

Now, more importantly, what is it that you actually like about Silent Death?
"Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here..."

- Ming the Merciless
  Reply



Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

User Panel

Welcome guest, not a member yet?

Why not sign up today and start posting on out community forums.


  Register

Navigation


Latest Topics

Forum software by © MyBB 1.8.26 Theme © iAndrew 2016