New Player - Linking SD to my other tt games

Hi,

I've been playing wargames since the early 80s, so yeah... I'm old.
Most of the games have been Sci-fi or fantasy, but since my lad was 10, he took an interest in playing X-Wing with me. I started thinking of adding a space game to my current favourite tabletop game, Beyond the Gates of Antares.

I managed to pick up the SD:TNM box set from ebay. Although the box was a tad battered, the contents were complete and in great condition - all the ships and tokens still on sprues etc. I also picked up a couple of extra sprues of ships so have 6 of each of the basic ship.

Because of aesthetics, I've grouped the 12 ships into 4 sets of 3 ships to match the 4 factions my wife, lad and I play in Gates of Antares.

Concord:
 Thunderbird
 Salamander
 Hellbender

Algoryn:
 Teal Hawk
 Blizzard
 Pit Viper

Isorian:
 Talon
 Lance Electra
 Dart

Ghar:
 Spirit Rider
 Nighthawk
 Kosmos

Now, as I've not played SD yet, I was wondering if we played something like a 200-250 point game, limiting players to multiples of the ships above using points, would that be balanced enough?
I'll have a couple of spare sprues so could add others to mix it up a little, but I wanted to paint the main groups of ships so they matched the faction colours of my foot soldiers/vehicles.

If there's any glaring errors or OP ships in those lists that would cause imbalance, could you let me know.

The idea is that we can have campaigns where there's a ship battle prior to a battle on the planet, with the ship combat winner maybe getting bonuses. Or having ship games where the idea is to get relief to a plant through a blockade.

Thanks.

"I've been playing wargames since the early 80s, so yeah... I'm old."


Welcome to the Interstellar Flyin' Circus! 1980s? You young pup! I've been playing wargames since the 1970s! 


"I managed to pick up the SD:TNM box set from ebay. Although the box was a tad battered, the contents were complete and in great condition - all the ships and tokens still on sprues etc. I also picked up a couple of extra sprues of ships so have 6 of each of the basic ship."


And excellent catch! Should you need more of course, you'll find them in our online store, while all of the books are currently available as PDFs through our RPGNow! storefront.


"Because of aesthetics, I've grouped the 12 ships into 4 sets of 3 ships to match the 4 factions my wife, lad and I play in Gates of Antares.

Concord:
 Thunderbird
 Salamander
 Hellbender"


A balanced force with a blend of cannons and good total torpedo loadout for the force...



"Algoryn:
 Teal Hawk
 Blizzard
 Pit Viper"


Good speed but light on firepower and torpedo loadout. Will have to use speed to maximum advantage...



"Isorian:
 Talon
 Lance Electra
 Dart"


One of the fastest ships in the game (Dart) with the slower moving strike ships (Lance Electra) with a light-medium fighter as a somewhat heavier escort. Good for attack missions such as going after freighters and such, and the Lance Electras's missile launchers can come in handy in a furball.


"Ghar:
 Spirit Rider
 Nighthawk
 Kosmos"

Now this is a rather scary bunch thanks to the Night Hawk's Sextuple Splatterguns, with the added help of the Spirit Riders and the faster Kosmos. The weaknesses are the light torpedo load (only two Mk. 10s per Spirit Rider), and the Kosmos being dependent upon weapons that will run out of ammunition. 

Overall each grouping will present its challenges, some more than others, as they will their strengths. And *that* is IMHO where the fun is, in getting ships to work in concert effectively.


"Now, as I've not played SD yet, I was wondering if we played something like a 200-250 point game, limiting players to multiples of the ships above using points, would that be balanced enough?"


I'd recommend for your first outing that everyone takes a light SPAC such as the Dart or Pit Viper just to get familiar with how the rules work, then start playing with larger craft and more weapon systems. Once you're all comfortable with how the mechanics flow (and they do flow!), yes, 200 to 250 TPV is a good place to start.



"I'll have a couple of spare sprues so could add others to mix it up a little, but I wanted to paint the main groups of ships so they matched the faction colours of my foot soldiers/vehicles."


Always a fun approach to take when it comes to painting spacecraft or space fighters IMHO.



"If there's any glaring errors or OP ships in those lists that would cause imbalance, could you let me know."


See above. It really boils down to mission profile IMHO. Some ships are optimized for dogfighting other ships (ie., the Nighthawk), or are jack-of-all-trades workhorses (ie., the Hellbender), while others are specialist strike ships (ie., the Lance Electra) best though of as essentially light bombers, or optimized to act in a supporting role for other fighters (ie., the Teal Hawk). 


"The idea is that we can have campaigns where there's a ship battle prior to a battle on the planet, with the ship combat winner maybe getting bonuses. Or having ship games where the idea is to get relief to a plant through a blockade."


Been there, done that, and it's a helluvalotta fun, and I used Silent Death believe it or not to accomplish that very goal. 

So again, welcome to the Interstellar Flyin' Circus, and remember to always watch yer six, 'cause the Colosians will always come at you out of the sun! 

"Because of aesthetics, I've grouped the 12 ships into 4 sets of 3 ships to match the 4 factions my wife, lad and I play in Gates of Antares.

Concord:
Thunderbird
Salamander
Hellbender"

A balanced force with a blend of cannons and good total torpedo loadout for the force...

"Algoryn:
Teal Hawk
Blizzard
Pit Viper"

Good speed but light on firepower and torpedo loadout. Will have to use speed to maximum advantage...

"Isorian:
Talon
Lance Electra
Dart"

One of the fastest ships in the game (Dart) with the slower moving strike ships (Lance Electra) with a light-medium fighter as a somewhat heavier escort. Good for attack missions such as going after freighters and such, and the Lance Electras's missile launchers can come in handy in a furball.

"Ghar:
Spirit Rider
Nighthawk
Kosmos"

Now this is a rather scary bunch thanks to the Night Hawk's Sextuple Splatterguns, with the added help of the Spirit Riders and the faster Kosmos. The weaknesses are the light torpedo load (only two Mk. 10s per Spirit Rider), and the Kosmos being dependent upon weapons that will run out of ammunition.

Overall each grouping will present its challenges, some more than others, as they will their strengths. And *that* is IMHO where the fun is, in getting ships to work in concert effectively.

A massive thank you for replying in such detail - it was exactly what I was after.
Interesting though. For the figures we own for Gates of Antares, the Concord seem to be the most balanced with good weapons - same as above.
The Ghar have some powerful weapons, but are prone to self exploding, or in the case of here, weapons running out of ammo. The Isorian in GoA seem pretty balanced like the Concord and seem to be above. The Algoryn have weaker weapons than the others, but our armies have a lot of speed. So, pretty similar to above.

We'll have a small game pretty shortly to get the rules learnt. We've already been through the "optional" rules and picked some w'e'd like to use. Namely; Asteroids, Decoys, Point-Defense, Ramming and Sideslips.
The one I'm a little worried about adding is Damage Control. If we add that, it will use everything in the extra box on the ship cards. I know my wife likes TT games that take around 1.5 hours or less, so I'm worried using Damage Control could increase the length of games. Does DC make a massive difference to game length?

I've already printed and laminated the fighter cards we need. An ultra-fine red sharpie works perfectly on them for use during the game and stands out well. It rubs off with a bit of isopropyl alcohol perfectly.

Now... do we play on our paper mats from the box set, or wait a week for delivery of the 4 foot by 3 foot 1.5 inch hex mouse mat I have coming :-)



I've painted up a few models, so I'll post those when I get some photos taken (in the right forum section)


Thanks again.

I for one haven't found Damage Control to slow things down overmuch, simply because (1) it's limited in it's effects, and (2) the weapons can really trash a ship fairly quickly beyond the point where Damage Control might save the day. But then again I personally am a very aggressive player used to an utterly ruthless, cold-as-hard-vacuum opponent (Sheldon Greaves, I'm looking at you!) who wastes no time in blowing up Someone Unlucky usually on the first turn in my case (my dice are funny that way).

In fact, that's another twist to the tale, is the issue of Critical Hits, which can also render Damage Control a somewhat moot point. I mean, for one anecdotal example, I had a 1,000 point game with The Abominable Doctor Greaves a number of years ago, and let fly with my Sigurd Archdiocese Iceberg class gunboat's quad Autocannons. I rolled a thoroughly hard hit, and landed a critical. Sheldon rolled to see what mischief I had wrought, and scored the right wrong result. His Epping gunboat went up like HMS Invincible at Jutland. Ouch. 

So start out mastering the Basic Rules, absolutely. You'll find that the most popular of the Optional Rules is Easing Target Speed Restriction, while Damage Control is helpful at times, but has its limitations (and may be rendered moot by severe damage from one too many sources). 

Hope this all helps, and we're looking forward to your pics of painted minis! 

Thanks again.
Maybe I'll get time to get a trial game in this weekend, if not, Easter holidays are looming and I know both myself and my wife have some time off. A chance to do some gaming.

I've posted some pics on this thread - providing photobucket don't put up that unpaid user link.

http://www.silent-death.mx/forum/showthread.php?tid=561

Thanks again.
Maybe I'll get time to get a trial game in this weekend, if not, Easter holidays are looming and I know both myself and my wife have some time off. A chance to do some gaming.

I've posted some pics on this thread - providing photobucket don't put up that unpaid user link.

http://www.silent-death.mx/forum/showthread.php?tid=561

We decided to rule that DC could be used all the time like the Warhounds.  It made it a lot more fun.  Even for Gunboats who were trying to repair one side while turning the better side in to the fire fight.

We decided to rule that DC could be used all the time like the Warhounds.  It made it a lot more fun.  Even for Gunboats who were trying to repair one side while turning the better side in to the fire fight.

You, oh Small Blue Flying Homicidal Maniac, are indeed a vicious, cunning, and implaccable foe to be feared by anyone sensible. I salute you!